I’m a friend and associate of Cledun’s, and I largely agree with him on the Ukraine issue. When I saw the response to Cledun from Mark Yuray, I couldn’t help but wade in to see what I could make of this mess.
Ok, let’s try to trudge through this piece of balderdash.
“The Russians living in Eastern Ukraine are no more at fault for being born in areas their parents were moved into by communists than the Poles living in former East Prussia are.”
“Presumably this ethnonationalist wouldn’t argue for the ethnic cleansing of Poles from now-Western Poland to allow the repatriation of ethnic Germans”
This is a moot point, because the Poles aren’t currently engaging in anti-German or anti-European irredentism which involves waging war on the Germans. The Russians in South-East Ukraine are doing exactly this – fighting their European brothers in an act of Eurasianist, anti-European and Bolshevik irredentism.
“History is a long series of ethnic displacements. This is Gnon’s law. Deal with it.”
I agree: if the Ukrainians wish to displace the hostile, war-waging Russian elements of South-East Ukraine by expelling them back into Russia (as they so desire anyway) in an act of self-preservation, then so be it. I would hope that most of the Russians in the region – who are a good European peoples – buckle down and support their role in the Ukrainian state if it comes down to this.
“Note also the complete obliviousness to the fact that the borders of Ukraine are themselves an invention of the Soviet communists. Does ethnonationalism mean supporting the rights of all peoples to their homelands, or does it mean enforcing ethnic homogeneity strictly within borders dictated by communists?”
Yep, the Ukrainian borders WERE a Soviet invention. Actual Ukraine is bigger, more like this:
And yet the Ukrainians aren’t fighting a petty nationalist, irredentist war against their fellow Europeans, in order to reclaim territory that has long been out of their control.
“If you’re going to subtly argue for ethnic cleansing of a people to satisfy a bloodily blind ideological requirement, can you please just stick with one group at a time? “On top of”? So was it the Russians in Donbass or Stalin (a Georgian) and his lackeys (Jews) who perpetrated the Holodomor and deserve Ukrainian vengeance? Or is the writer equating the USSR with Russia, and the Russians with Soviets? Remember this implication, it’ll be important later…”
Clearly, the fault is with the Judeo-Bolsheviks who were all about making the provinces of the Soviet Union “blanda up”. Like when they relocated Germans to Kazakhstan, or Russians to East Prussia, or Ukrainians to the Urals, or Chechens and Cossacks to Siberia or…
“Leaving aside whether or not this will be possible, the Russian separatists want to take all the land they view as rightfully theirs, inhabited by Russian speakers and historically part of the “New Russia” region of the Russian Empire. Their attempt to conquer their “rightful” land is just as legitimate as the Ukrainian attempt to conquer the rebellious Donbass.”
It’s not rightfully theirs. Their land stretches from Murmansk to Vladivostok with well-defined borders. Novorussia was always part of Ukraine, and its formation began when most of Ukraine (and Belarus) were part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the rest of the Slavic lands on the Pontic Steppe were subjugated by various Turks and Tartars. Historical Novorussia = Russian attempt to win back a part of Europe from the Muslims for the good of Slavdom, not an attempt at annexing territory already controlled by their brothers for the cause of anti-European Eurasianism. (Indeed, such a cause would have supported Turkic stewardship over the region).
“Furthermore, note the deliberate obliviousness to the economic situation in Ukraine. “A death sentence.” About as much of a death sentence as splitting Detroit from the rest of America would be. Here’s a map of GDP per oblast in Ukraine. Notice a pattern between East and West? Discounting banks and insurance companies, the three most profitable Ukrainian companies of 2012 were all based in Donetsk.”
Yeah, so he says that the South-East Ukrainian Russian inhabitants’ goals wouldn’t be a death sentence for Ukraine, and spends the rest of the paragraph showing how it absolutely, 100% would. Nice going there, champ!
“This is also a good time to note that despite the insane wails about Russian imperialists attempting to “eat,” “conquer,” “destroy,” and (good grief) “cannibalize” Ukraine, Ukraine has every single structural economic and political problem Russia has except they’re all ten times worse.”
Yeah, it’s almost as the fact that they have been absolutely dominated by Eurasianist Russia in the post-Soviet world and have been guided by that stooge Yanukovich along Russian developmental lines despite not having the advantages in natural resources or manpower that Russia has, would somehow lead to the exact same problems as Russia, but tenfold. Weird that, huh?
“Being “cannibalized” by Russia would be the best thing that could happen to Ukraine.”
Jesus Christ, you couldn’t shill this hard if you were being paid by “Shill, Shilling and Son” from Shillcago, Penshillvania to represent them in the World Shilling Championships Finals against the incumbent champions Shillsberg College of Shillcinati, Shillinois on the subject of “reading from a teleprompt about why shilling should definitely not be a criminal offense”.
There are as of yet undocumented cannibal tribes in the dense jungles of Papua New Guinea, whose sole understanding of interpersonal interaction is “me eat people, but no eat own tribe” who would hear this sentence and immediately declare “Oh, so THAT’s what shilling is!”
“Russia’s GDP is $3.492 trillion (PPP), which works out to $24,298 per capita.”
Yah, it’s amazing what can happen to GDP results when a group of Oligarchs have access to large reserves of a profitable natural resource like oil and gas. Ukraine doesn’t have this access to these resources, hence it imports from Russia. The amount of money your typical Ukrainian would earn – bearing in mind the fact that positions for “oil oligarch” are already well-covered from Russian citizens – would not exponentially increase if they were absorbed by Russia.
“Russia is doing better than Poland, Hungary and Croatia in this regard.”
Great examples there of countries with similar access to natural resources and manpower.
“Ukraine is doing worse than Mongolia, Albania, Bosnia and even Kosovo.”
More great examples there of countries which are largely subsidised by the Atlanticist states because their economies would never stand half as much of a chance standing on their own two feet as Ukraine’s does.
“Russia’s unemployment rate is 5.5%. Ukraine’s is 7.4%.”
Whoa! What a huge difference it is between the two! Whoa! Megadifference! Ukraine might as well pack in its spiritual necessity to defend its homeland and just let Russia absorb it, so its unemployment figures can happily drop just under two percent.
“Ukraine imports a full third of imports from Russia, but Russia only imports one twentieth from Ukraine.”
Yes, economic domination is an excellent reason to not resist further encroachment on your national sovereignty. Russia must truly need to concern itself with being fair to the Ukrainian people with such a one-sided discrepancy in its favour in trade relations.
“According to my calculations, the Russian average gross salary is literally 167% of the Ukrainian ($405/month compared to $679/month). Russia is ranked 92nd for ease-of-doing-business. Putin corruption! Oops, Ukraine is ranked 137th. Russia is ranked 127th for corruption. Not exactly stellar. Then again, Ukraine is ranked 144th. Apparently those corrupt Russian bastards could teach the angelic Ukrainians a thing or two about honest business.”
So both Russian and Ukrainian salaries are dismal, they both have piss-poor results for “ease of doing business”, their corruption ranking is both absolutely abysmal, and this somehow proves that Ukraine doing away with their national sovereignty to be dominated by this “ever so slightly less bad by every metric input” country is somehow objectively better for them?
“But as we all know anyway, Ukraine would be a second Switzerland if only it weren’t for those meddling Russians. Right? Ukrainians are just helpless angels who are just being kept down by those nasty Russians all the time. There’s absolutely nothing inherent about an Eastern European country covered in empty flat farmland that might hinder its development into an EU-ready welfare state filled with childless feminists, proselytizing homosexuals and African asylum-seekers, right? It’s all Putin’s fault, right!? Right?!”
Good thing Cledun never argued this then, huh?
“If “Jewish argumentation” is a thing, this is fucking it right here. Albanians, Georgians, Azerbaijanis, and, yes, even Chechens have been fighting on the Ukrainian side against Russia. What a coincidental omission!”
Shills shilling hard. But yeah, Albanians and Georgians are absolutely European anyway, so bringing them into this is absolutely irrelevant, and the other two groups are fighting as a way of opening the fronts for battles they’re fighting (or at risk for fighting) back home. Last I heard, Ukraine or Europe weren’t breathing down the neck of Kazakhstan/Uzbekistan/etc. in the way that Russia is in Chechnya, Azerbaijan, or Georgia.
And as much as I hate Azerbaijan, they have as much at stake for their own national sovereignty if Ukraine loses, even if you take the NKR conflict out of the equation, simply because the Azeris are a government which does not toe the Eurasianist/neo-Bolshevik party line, a privilege which has thus far only been presented to them because of their own vast oil reserves, and because Russia is more concerned with retaining the much-more dependant Azeri rivals Armenia in their sphere).
“Worse yet, Ukrainian nationalists make a habit of bragging about their earlier fighting against Russians in support of Muslim Chechens attempting to establish an Emirate in Southern Russia. Wow, real stand-up guys!”
Notice the lack of citations here. Great work talking out of your arse, guy!
“Also coincidentally omitted is the fact that Serbian Chetniks, Hungarians (“Legion of St. Stephen”), Frenchmen, Spaniards, Americans, Italians, Germans, Belorussians and others have been volunteering on the Russian side. The “Remove Kebab” guys are on Russia’s side, not Ukraine’s.”
The fact that Duginists and NRxers are on Putin’s side hasn’t been omitted at all.
Images of European 4th Position volunteers from Cleduns original article.
“This blathering left-winger is apparently horrified that the Novorussians aren’t a grassroots movement. Because only the people maaan! provide legitimacy, right? Somehow Russians in Russia supporting Russians in Ukraine is not legitimately ethnically nationalist in any way, it’s just a “concerted imperialistic effort.” Damn those imperialists maaan! Please conveniently ignore the fact that there is literally no ethnic or racial nationalist uprising in the rest of Ukraine.”
- Yeah actually, the people of a nation DO provide legitimacy, numbskull.
- That’s right that there isn’t an ethnic or racial nationalist uprising in the rest of Ukraine – in many parts where Russians also live. Funny that, huh?
“Poroshenko is not a nationalist. Yatsenyuk is not a nationalist. The progressives, homosexuals, degenerates and Jews in Brussels and Washington who are funneling money and weapons to Kiev and singing its praises every day are not nationalists.”
No shit, Cledun condemned Poroshenko and showed that the Ukrainain Nationalists do as well. Where’s this valiant nationalist European-oriented government in Russia, again? Is it the same one that locks Russian racial nationalists up for as long as ten years?
“The only nationalists in Ukraine are so god-damned stupid they installed a government that openly assassinates them and lets them die on the frontlines of a war that only benefits the same Atlanticists they are supposed to be independent from, and that ordinary Ukrainians who are apparently the Third Way racial nationalist uprising maaan! are so excited about that only 6% of them voluntarily showed up for the last draft to expel the evil neo-Soviet invader.”
Yeah, dumb Ukrainian nationalists installing a Jew-dildos government. And while we’re at it, dumb American nationalists for installing Obama, and dumb British nationalists for installing Cameron, and dumb French nationalists for installing Hollande, and dumb Russian nationalists for installing Putin, and dumb Boer nationalists for installing Zuma, etc.
“Now he has wisely and conveniently forgotten it, just in time for him to imply that Russians are ideological Soviet Marxists, despite the fact Russia has an actual Communist Party which is consistently a minority/opposition party.”
The Mayor of Simplesville has just called. He wanted to give you the keys to the city for being so unable to use anything but the most primitive of analytical skills. Like most Putinophiles, really.
“Russians are nostalgic about the Soviet Union because when they called themselves “Soviets” instead of “Russians” the Americans weren’t at their doorstep funding the genocide of their countrymen and trying to force state-backed homosexuality on the whole country.”
Yes, being nostalgic over self-autocide is much better than and definitely not on the same level as being against a foreign/alien government wishing to take your place doing so.
“and discreetly ignore the surface ideological differences”
This about says it all, really.
“Russia is a multiethnic state. It has always been a multiethnic state. It will always be a multiethnic state. Being Russian is about being the top-dog in a multiethnic multicontinental state. Russian multiculturalism is not Western white-guilt-based progressivist multiculturalism.”
“It says something that both this leftist writer and the braindead ueber-leftists at ANTIFA think Russia is a rising neo-Marxist empire.”
The same Antifa that Cledun pointed out were fighting for Putins separatists? Yeah, it says that they both probably know something that you can’t wrap your dense little Putinfag head around.
“The first one is laughably untrue (Russia has a flat tax for crying out loud)”
Whoa! The cure for Marxism is a flat-tax? The world is saved – hurrah!
“Again, see above. Google “fnords” and “thedes.” Dr. Adolf, Ph.D. is also apparently blissfully unaware that the Russian word “совет” literally means “council.” But Yuray! Connotations! What the hell else were they supposed to call it? The People’s Reichstag of Donetsk? Check out the translations for Russia’s current legislative upper-house, or its pre-USSR Tsarist council. Oops.”
Yeah, the fact that this Bolshevik-nostalgic, Communist-minded movement just so happens to Christen itself with Communist-inspired monkiers is just an irrelevant coincidence, maaaan. They’re like, just words, completely in void and without significance, duuuuude.
I was going to respond to the rest of the article, but there isn’t any point in really wasting more time on this windbag. He basically just proved Cleduns prediction accurate: that Putin-loving shills will go to any lengths to justify and defend anything Russia does, whatever the reason. The piece is one long apology the Soviet Union and Russian imperialism. He also accepts the mainstream Jewish holocaust narrative, and uses it to tar Cledun as some kind of brutish skinhead, and then goes on to celebrate the ethnic cleansing and genocide committed by Russia against European and non-European groups alike!
All in all, Mark Yuray can’t tell his ass from his face, and has been duly exposed here as a moron and shill for Judeo-Communism, and an advocate for the darkening of Europe under another shitty, backwards iron curtain.